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[info]mbumby wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 02:30 pm (UTC)
Cable TV
We still have cable -- mostly for the "just in case" times, and the cable modem is a tad cheaper with it. But I just don't have time to watch hardly anything. I think the last 2 times I turned on the TV with the purpose of watching something were when Mir came down and when they took the Hudson's building in Detroit down. Congratulations on your ... anniversary of doing without.
[info]ohiblather wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 07:03 pm (UTC)
Re: Cable TV
We may still eventually get cable tv for the "just in case" times. The 20 months so far has been an experiment. :-)
[info]tigertoy wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 03:07 pm (UTC)
Television is evil and lives to suck out your soul. Good for you for mostly escaping from its clutches!
[info]allisona wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 03:59 pm (UTC)
I don't agree. Good television is as inspirational and worthy as any other artform out there.

As for bad television, well, Sturgeon's Law applies :).
[info]tigertoy wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 05:41 pm (UTC)
Television as an art form is quite different from television as an industry and a cultural phenomenon.

While any legitimate art form can play a positive role in society (and anything that can't perform a positive role in society shouldn't be called art, regardless of what the so-called artist says), I stand behind my description of the television culture I see around me. Even the best television is too passive to be a mentally (to say nothing of physically) healthy way to spend very much of one's time. Mental laziness is a major, if not the major, affliction of our society, and the addictive passivity of TV encourages mental laziness. Furthermore, most television is far from the best, since commercial TV's actual purpose is not to stimulate thought, to inform, or even to entertain. Commercial TV is only an advertising medium; the content between the ads is just an expense that the network execs seek to minimize. Between their tightfitstedness and their fear of offending anyone, they smother all but the most indefatiguable artistic sparks.
[info]allisona wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 06:04 pm (UTC)
And yet those artistic sparks do sometimes fly through and I'm glad the medium is there to allow for it. Television is probably one of the most accessible of all the arts, with all the pros and cons that go along with that truth. The glass can be half-empty or half-full.

Too much television is, of course, a bad thing. Too much anything is likely a bad thing. A constant diet of bad television is a very bad thing. I can only speak from personal experience, but television hasn't always been passive for me and over time shows and TV events have inspired me to read books, write zines, create crafts, compose songs, meet people I might never have otherwise met if we didn't have that common bond.

The key, of course, is media education, making kids wise to the ways of TV- just the teacher in me coming through :).

Which isn't to say I don't ocassionally watch "American Idol" or "Deal or No Deal". Call it the media equivilent of a chocolate fix. Not good for you, but yummy and not harmful in limited doses.
[info]tigertoy wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 06:45 pm (UTC)
TV events have inspired me to read books, write zines, create crafts, compose songs

You're an exceptionally intelligent and creative person for whom mental torpor isn't a preferred state, even after extended exposure to TV.

Pathological signs, which I think are very common in people in our culture:
(1) Being unwilling to go out and do something with a friend because show X is on TV that night.
(2) Continuing to sit there staring and clicking the remote even after determining that there's nothing worth watching on at the moment.
[info]ohiblather wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 07:08 pm (UTC)
I definitely feel there's some very good TV shows! Those are the ones I miss sometimes, and we do rent TV shows. :-)

I also feel that there's nothing wrong with having cable TV. My post wasn't a condemnation of tv in general, but a report on our 20 months without cable tv, and why the choice seems to be the right one for US right now.

As a later post says, TV is like anything else...too much can be a bad thing. From what I've found so far is that "too little" can also be a good thing for some. :-)
[info]tigertoy wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 08:24 pm (UTC)
Even good TV is junk food for the mind. Like junk food can keep you from starving if there's nothing else, TV can keep you sane if there's nothing else. A little of it is not harmful, and if you genuinely enjoy it it's fine to indulge moderately. But more than a little messes up your diet and leads to long term health problems, and it's highly addictive -- just as few people will eat one "serving" of potato chips and then stop when the bag is right there, few people will watch just one show and then stop when the TV is right there.

But I realize I'm being a little too strong in my criticism of TV in general, because what I really hate about TV is the ads. I see commercials (and most modern advertising) as deliberately dishonest, manipulative, anti-thinking, and a pernicious influence on society in so many ways it would take a whole book to cover them all. I feel strongly enough about commercials that it seriously impairs my objectivity about TV in general.
[info]keristor wrote:
Sep. 22nd, 2006 09:22 am (UTC)
"ven good TV is junk food for the mind"

The same has been claimed for fiction in any format, newspapers, music, and any of the arts. I know people who will read a book (any book) in preference to doing anything else, even when that means that they are late to work, miss meals, don't clean the house, etc. You know at least one as well, the one typing this. I've been known to 'waste' hours reading the dictionary, having got 'hooked' by looking up one word.

People who get 'hooked' on TV are the sort who would have got 'hooked' on anything. In my family we used the 'off' switch on the TV (but not on books, sometimes we would all miss a meal and not notice because we were each reading something). We used the 'off' switch on the radio as well.

Of course, in the US you have a ridiculous amount of advertising breaks, I certainly wouldn't put up with it, but that's what the TiVo, VCR, etc. are good at doing, skipping the commercials (well, that and recording programmes which are on when I'm at work or doing something else). I watch almost nothing 'live', I record it and skip the commercials. That also brings the watching time down to around 40 minutes for a 'hour' programme, thus freeing a third of the time for reading, doing LJ, and other such more important activities.

For me, TV actually helps. I put it on and watch a programme while I'm eating, which ensures that (a) I eat and (b) that I don't sit there at the computer all the time. Otherwise I'll just sit there doing email, newsgroups, LJ, #filkhaven, etc. for hours on end...
[info]tigertoy wrote:
Sep. 22nd, 2006 03:19 pm (UTC)
You certainly have a point here. Too much of anything can be a bad thing, and TV isn't the only thing that can be addictive. And I'll even admit that it should be possible to produce TV that engages the mind and stimulates thought, instead of encouraging the mind to shut down; such TV shouldn't be any worse than books. But the nature of the medium is such that it takes a great deal of effort to keep the viewer thinking rather than just passively accepting the content, and I see very little of that effort making it through to what little TV I get exposed to. Like I meant to say above, I don't mean to condemn the art form, just the culture and the commercial TV industry.
[info]keristor wrote:
Sep. 22nd, 2006 04:37 pm (UTC)
But as others have said there are good TV programmes in spite of the industry, just as there is still good music and fiction coming out in spite of the influences in those industries. Maybe it isn't to your taste, and you don't feel inspired by it, but that's your problem (I don't care much for most visual art, or most poetry, which others find inspiring). I remember as a teenager that we would watch Star Trek (the only series, then) as a family and almost every episode we would find something which sparked a discussion. I remember finding the same with friends about Battlestar Galactica (the original series). And Babylon 5, and Doctor Who. And, recently, with my sister about JAG. I know people who find things which make them think in soap operas and sitcoms.

I don't think it's any worse than books or other art. Most books are written for money and are pretty dire (readers tend to filter out the stuff not in their genre and forget that (for instance) the Harlequin 'romances' swamp SF for number of books published). I don't see anything intrinsically in the TV industry which is worse than in any of the other art industries, apart from the interruptions (but as I said elsewhere they are easy to filter out with technology).

Yes, 90% of it is crap. Probably 90% of the 10% is crap as well to most people. Let's take it two steps more in recursing Sturgeon's Law and say that the ratio is 1:10,000. With 100 TV channels that's still an hour of worthwhile TV every 4 days, almost 2 hours a week...

(Personally, I could do without 99% of what is on radio channels as well, but I'll keep a couple of hours a day of BBC Radio 3 (classical music). But most people would label that 'crap' and prefer the pop music...)
[info]tigertoy wrote:
Sep. 22nd, 2006 06:54 pm (UTC)
I'm not talking about taste when I talk about television being bad. Obviously anything that stays on the air is enough to the taste of some viewers that they watch it, and the fact that I don't like it doesn't make me right and them wrong. I'm talking about whether it encourages most viewers to think more deeply than they would otherwise or less. Obviously, not all viewers are the same, and even if they were, there would be a continuum between totally brain-rotting and totally critical-thinking-inspiring. Since viewers react individually, any show's location on that continuum will be a rough approximation at best. But my points are:

(1) the continuum (and its fuzzy nature) applies to all media, not just TV;
(2) the nature of the TV medium, in my considered opinion, is such that equivalent subject matter treated with equal care will usually come out toward the dumber end of the continuum than it would in a book, so it is a greater artistic challenge to produce thought-inspiring TV;
(3) the nature of the TV industry pushes everything to the dumb end, and so does the taste of the general public (what I've been calling the culture of television; most people (present company certainly excepted) *want* to turn on the tube and turn off their minds;
(4) thus, I believe the overall influence of TV on our society is negative; for every person who's been inspired to greater things by TV, there's several who have had their creative spark and/or working IQ diminished;
(5) I don't mean to say that everyone should go home and smash their televisions, just that they should take a good hard look at how much time they spend watching.
[info]ohiblather wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 07:16 pm (UTC)
re: "I can only speak from personal experience, but television hasn't always been passive for me and over time shows and TV events have inspired me to read books, write zines, create crafts, compose songs, meet people I might never have otherwise met if we didn't have that common bond."

Oh, I VERY MUCH agree with this! As you say, too much of anything is a bad thing, and good tv can be educational and inspirational. I'm already learning a ton through watching "Rome," just as one example, and the series is inspiring me to find out more about Roman history in a way I never did in school.
[info]nitouche wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 03:28 pm (UTC)
I liked "Rome", although I have to admit my favourite part was the opening credits! Did you know Verenus & Pullo actually do show up in Caesar's writings?
[info]ohiblather wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 07:08 pm (UTC)
That's what Jeff told me, that Verenus (thanks for spelling that name! I didn't know :-D) and Pullo actually did exist, though I'm sure a fair amount in the tv show was embellished.
[info]ohiblather wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 07:17 pm (UTC)
And the opening credits are VERY cool! It's pretty much the only tv show for which I'll voluntarily watch the credits each time rather than fast forwarding over them.
[info]phillip2637 wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 05:21 pm (UTC)
"five vocal parts"

[ *whimper* ]
[info]ohiblather wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 07:09 pm (UTC)
Hopefully you won't whimper when you hear my arrangement, too!

:-D

Also, you should be aware that it's not a classical five part arrangement. More like a musical conversation, really.
[info]phillip2637 wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 08:08 pm (UTC)
I'm sure I won't have a problem with the arrangement.

It was more that, the only time I get that many melodic lines into a song is when I've sung it wrong at least four times.
[info]victoriae wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 05:45 pm (UTC)
Upon moving to San Francisco, my boyfriend and I were reminded of just how expensive cable TV is, so we haven't had it since May. Personally, I don't even plan to get it again now.
[info]ohiblather wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 07:11 pm (UTC)
Good luck with your experiment! Ours seems to be going pretty well so far. I estimate I used to watch at least 15 hours of TV a week. Now I average about 2. It's nice to have that extra 13 hours. :-)
[info]victoriae wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 07:12 pm (UTC)
Same here. The only thing we watch on the TV is movies or my boyfriend likes his XBox 360. I'm happy to spend that time exploring the city, knitting, reading or writing now.
[info]ohiblather wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 07:16 pm (UTC)
I envy people who can knit. I toyed with the idea of learning, but I don't have the patience. :-(
[info]fifona wrote:
Sep. 22nd, 2006 07:35 am (UTC)
About a year after we got married we decided to give up TV completely, thinking we would spend more time together, be more active, and read a lot more books. The money we saved on the TV Licence (a British phenomenon I'm not sure you have) was quickly spent on magazine subscriptions more than books, we spent more time going to evening classes for our own individual rather than shared interests and then....umm.... then we had a baby!

So all in all, it was not quite the outcome we expected! :-D
[info]ohiblather wrote:
Sep. 22nd, 2006 12:24 pm (UTC)
LOL! I love this. :-D